U-156/U-502 Roundtable Newsletter #7 by Don Gray Copyright 2006 by Don D. Gray. All rights reserved (Newsletter # 7, 1/28/2006) | ||||
From
History's Notebook:
"The idea of concentrating on Germany's oil resources was not new. Oil had been listed as a prime RAF target as long ago as 1939...(E)veryone knew that oil was the Achilles heel of the German military-industrial complex...Towards the end of the war, the relentless heavy bomber attacks on oil and transportation were decisive..." (DDG note: Unfortunately, RAF's Air Chief Marshall Arthur "Bomber" Harris never gave much weight to eliminating Germany's oil fields and refineries. Harris was never fully convinced that 'oil' should be the primary target.) ---The Bomber War, Robin Neillands, 2001. |
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January 28, 2006. Dear Fellow U-Boat Subscribers: Summary Lots of ground to cover in this issue...Part II of U-156's IIWO Dietrich-Alfred von dem Borne attempt to get vindication from the Kriegsmarine for his February 16, 1942 faux pas...Report on U-156/U-502 Roundtable #3 meeting at Chicago's Lago 40's-60's Reunion...An account of what Dan Jensen recollects from the February 16th U-boat attack...Book reviews on Iron Coffins by Werner, U-Boat Killer, MacIntyre, and U-Boats, Sharkhunters (edit.)...Movie review of Wolfgang Petersen's Das Boot... Correspondence from our subscribers and supporters...and, a draft agenda for June's Roundtable #4 meeting in Aruba. Jorge Ridderstaat is writing The Lago Story, a history of Lago's sixty-one years of oil refining on the island. Jorge is attempting to complete his book in time for the June Lago/Aruba Reunion...Ray Burson and Stan Norcom have assisted Jorge in the fact-finding and proof-reading of Chapter 4.3 ("The attack of February 16, 1942")...Ray has been tapping into the U.S. Archives' government web site for additional and, in some cases, forgotten information regarding the attack ...Stan has come up with some definitive information on U-156's (Type IX-C) basic configuration. Not all Classes or Types of U-boats were necessarily outfitted the same. U-boat armament and weaponry were changing all the time...Vic Lopez has published Vol. II of The Lago Colony Legend---Our Stories...Vic was kind enough to send an original of the Aruba Esso News' February 16, 1962 edition. Thanks Vic...For prior issues of the U-156/U-502 Newletters go to Dan Jensen's web site www.lago-colony.com |
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Newest Members Our latest Newsletter subscribers include: Sally (Locker) Link (Member #81); Claire (Wilken) & Loyd Dering (#82); Carole (Bond) & Byrne Johnson (#83); Van Andringa (#84); Horst Bredow (#85). Horst is the Executive Director of Das Archiv in Cuxhaven-Altenbruch, Germany. The Archiv is considered the most comprehensive body for the study of WWI and WWII U-boat history; Jorge Ridderstaat (#86). Jorge, as previously mentioned, is author of The Lago Story; and, Dufi Kock (#87), author of several books on Aruba and frequent contributor to Larry Riggs' e-mail newsletter Lago Bulletin Board---Bits & Pieces. Dufi is currently writing A History of Savaneta. Regrettably, we acknowledge the passing of Billie Sue (Miller) Lewis. Billie Sue was one of the first to sign-on to the U-156/U-502 Roundtable. |
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Correspondence Shirley (Hewlett) Barton (08/17/05): "I have learned over the years that most of what I was told (regarding the Feb. 16th attack) was either a flat-out lie or ficticious stories that had been made up...(While) in North Carolina I met a guy who was in the U.S. Army on Aruba that night. He told me he shot at the sub with his rifle. The bullets just went out a way and dropped into the sea. He told me it was very frustrating to have nothing bigger than a rifle...(H)e said he was only 17 or 18 at the time." Chris Cook (08/18/05): "I visited our old babysister from Aruba, Ms. Margaret Thomas, in Hanover, N.H., two years ago. She was originally from Grenada and came to Aruba...during the war. She recalled the U-boat surfacing in Oranjestad Harbour and said that it happened about 3:00 o'clock in the afternoon while school children were coming home from school. She believed the submarine crew spied these kids on the seawall staring at the U-boat and this is what kept U-502 (*see below) from firing on the city...I remember reading somewhere that the U-boat was laying on the bottom and had become stuck by the suction of the muddy bottom and did an emergency blow of all tanks, surfacing somewhat unintentionally. (*DDG note: The actual identity of this U-boat is unknown, as this time). (08/25/05): "(While) at the U.S. Army War College in Carlisle, Pa., I met a merchant seaman who, during WWII service in the Caribbean, had two different ships torpedoed out from under him...I think one sinking was near the south coast of Jamaica. He told us he literally stepped off the stern of the ship into a lifeboat...(H)e later was recalled (or volunteered) to sail one of the mothballed cargo ships for Operation Desert Storm, but the stema plant gave out in the middle of the Atlantic." Terri MacKay (08/16/05): "I was intrigued by the WWII information on Dan Jensen's web site---in one of life's strangest coincidences, when I announced to my family in 1977 that I was moving to Aruba...my father shocked me by telling me he was there during the war! He was in the Merchant Marines and sailed in tanker convoys. He said that he got one of the biggest scares of the war when they were nearing the (Lago) refinery because one of the ships (*see below) in the convoy was torpedoed... He got a bang out of returning to the island in 1980 and remembered San Nicolaas well...I have his ships papers at home, so will look through them to see if I can make any sense of this...(*DDG note: Any info on the tanker that was torpedoed, subscribers?) (08/31/05): "I looked briefly through my father's papers and saw that he served on the Esso Montpelier for about a year, as well as the Esso Utica. I'm pretty sure he enlisted in 1942; the Montpelier was the first ship he served on...." Rusty Royer (08/27/05): "(My dad) was on duty in Powerhouse #1 at the time of the attack...He does recall witnessing the shelling. He remembers tracer fire coming overhead---he says that the tracer fire did not go over the refinery from the sea, but went over the Colony toward the Tank Farm in back of the Colony. He was definite about that...He also remembers going down to the Eagle Refinery beach where the torpedo (from U-156) had beached and later blew up when an attempt was made to defuse it...He saw only the aftermath of the explosion. He said he saw part of a shoe that had belonged to one of the hapless Dutch military men who attempted to defuse the torpedo." Ted Gibbons (082205): "My father was dry-dock superintendent at the time of the U-boat attack. After the Pedernales finally burned out, he and a group of Aruban workers took a barge down to the ship and cut the tanker into two pieces and towed them back to the dry dock. There, the two half's were welded together using steel plates. The Pedernales was then towed back to the States where it was rebuilt...Dad left for work very early in the morning and worked long into the evening, so we didn't see him much until that job was completed." Pauline (Morgan) Young (08/18/05): "None have mentioned the other tankers that were sunk (at the time of the attack) off Venezuela. That's where Captain Milbank was lost and Chief Engineer Walker was also lost. I can't remember if they were on the same ship or not...(Upon further research I found) that the tankers lost were the Tia Juana and the San Nicolas. The account (in the Aruba Esso News' February 16, 1962 issue) does not give a specific location, only that it was along the tanker route to Lake Maracaibo..." (DDG note: Pauline's father was Capt. Morgan of the Oranjestad, the second tanker to be torpedoed off San Nicolaas Harbour by U-156 the night of February 16th.) Horst Bredow (10/31/05): (Congratulatory note) "In my opinion (your organization) does very good work over there. Please say all my best wishes to all cooperators and members. Please understand, I am 82 years and I have to work daily for 9 to 12 hours...and will read your Newsletters, every word...what I saw is a good work!" Pat (Ciccarelli) Sams (08/10/04):"Uncle Jim Ciccarelli was with Gen. George Patton and sustained some pretty heavy wounds; uncle Pat Ciccarelli was at Anzio, Italy; uncle Jerry Ciccarelli was with the Army Air Corps; uncle John Ambrosini was in England and Germany with the 29th Infantry; uncle Joe Ambrosini was with the Navy on a sub chaser... Two of my dad's (Frank Ciccarelli) younger brothers went in the service: one went with the US Navy and the other (Dom) with the US Army, but WWII was ending so Dom didn't go overseas." (DDG note: I thought this August 2004 note from Pat was unusual and merited repeating. I don't believe I have ever run across a family with so many relatives who distinguishly served in WWII.) U-156/U-502 Roundtable #3, 09/17/05, Essex Inn, Chicago, Illinois The Roundtable saw twelve in attendance and the discussion was lively. Forgotten aspects of the February 16, 1942 attack were brought up, and several new members signed the Roundtable roster. The meeting lasted approximately two hours and would have gone on longer if it weren't for the need to set-up the room for the Reunion banquet. All were looking forward to the June 2006 Lago/Aruba Reunion and Roundtable #4. Several reunioners visited Chicago's Museum of Science and Industry where captured U-505 had only recently been relocated indoors from an exhibit outside the museum for over 50 years.The capture of U-505 on June 4, 1944, by US Navy Captain Daniel Gallery, was kept secret until the end of the war. If you're in the Chicago area, it's worth every minute of your time to visit the museum and learn how U-505 was captured by the US Navy, and to view on a monitor the complex manuvering required to move the U-boat from outside the museum to an indoor exhibit hall below street level. |
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Dan Jensen's Recollections of The Attack "I have never gotten involved in the discussion of the U-boat attack, although I was 4-1/2 at the time. Believe it or not, I still have memory of the night...If I close my eyes and think real hard, I can see the fire on the otherside of the reef. That I know. And do not think even a four year old would forget. Let me tell you my story. "The American troops had arrived two days before the attack of February 16, 1942. I remember this because of talk between adults later, with speculation that the U-boat (#156) was there to get the American troop transport. That was before the real story came out after the war...(I)n 1940, when Germany invaded Holland, the Dutch rounded-up all nationals living in Aruba of countries occupied by the Nazis and sent them to an internment camp in Bonaire for the duration of the war. Some of nationals liable for internment lived in Lago Colony, my mother being one of them. She was Danish, and I would have had to go with her to Bonaire because of my age, even though I was an American. Lago intervened because there were men needed to operate the refinery; therefore, none of the nationals living in the Colony were sent to Bonaire (*see below). There was great fear of 'underground activity' because of pressure that could be put on families back in the (invaded) home countries by the Germans. So, all occupied country nationals were suspect. "The night of the attack the American troops were at Savaneta camp. It had been used by the British Highlanders and was in pretty good shape. The same transport (SS Henry Gibbins) that brought the Americans to Aruba took the Brits (back to England). "The night of the attack there was a dance at the Officer's Club at Savaneta camp to welcome the troops. My parents went to the dance. There was man by the name of Johnny Snear(sp.), foreman of the refinery's foundry. Johnny's family was vacationing in the States and he baby-sat for me the night of the attack. When the attack began, Uncle Johnny (that's what I called him) woke me and together we walked across the street from our bungalow (#252), down the path on the hill to where the New Esso Club was later built, and watched the ships burn. "Later, when I was a little older, I remember adults talking in the kitchen at a party and my dad saying, 'Those #@% Germans would have gotten us if they had hit the Gibbins'. They then went on talking about the supply ship Gibbins that brought the explosives and American troops to Aruba, and what would have happened to the refinery if it had been hit. Seems they all thought the refinery would have been destroyed. I remember this very well because I was old enough to know the word %$# but had never heard my father use it. How did my dad know that word? Had the "older kids" taught him? "Anyway, that is my 'first hand account' of the attack and the realization that my dad knew 'dirty words'." (*DDG note: I have been told of a Colony family sympathetic to the Nazi dictatorship that had a portrait of Adolf Hitler hanging in their living room. To say "they were among the first to be interred" would be an understatement.) |
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"Did You know That..." "There was no ship access to San Nicolaas Harbour until a channel was cut on the east side; (San Nicolaas) Bay opened November 16, 1927. One can date the functioning of Lago refinery from that moment. "Due to the efforts of Captain Rodger's in 1937, the western entrance to the Harbour was cut through the reef so that ships could now enter port from the west side and exit the basin from the east side. Not until that year did it become possible to have San NIcolaas Harbour open day and night. Before 1937 ships could only enter the harbour by daylight."---Johan Hartog, Aruba, Past and Present, pg. 310, 1962, by way of Ray Burson (01/18/06). Dietrich von dem Borne Memoranda, 1944-1972 - Part II of IV. In Part II of Dietrich von dem Borne Memorandums, we'll learn of Borne's appeal to the Kriegsmarine for full vindication in the February 16, 1942, U-156 deck cannon mishap, and his wishes to be awarded the Verwundetenabzeichens ("wounded decoration") for combat injuries suffered during the patrol. Guy Goodboe provided copies of the Borne memoranda resulting from his trip to Das Archi in 2004, and Jerry Casius was gracious in providing translations of the memoranda from German into English. For the sake of clarity, Jerry has substituted mundpfropfenschuss, or shot with gun barrel tampion installed or still in-place, with the letter M; and, rohrkrepierers, or premature explosion of an artillery shell in the gun barrel, with letters RK. Bootsmannsmaat Marek has been designated No. 1 Bootsmannsmaat Herdecker as No. 2 "Soldier" is often substituted for crewman. Emphasis and brackets [ ( ) ] have been added by the editor, DDG. DDG note: In reading Borne's account of the deck cannon mishap it is best to remember that the 105mm gun barrel was damaged/blossomed and therefore inoperable at the time of attack. Therefore, the 105mm cannon* could not have been used in the February 16th attack. The damaged end of the barrel was sawn off by U-156's crew; it took 1-1/2 days of continuous work and a constant supply of saw blades to cut through Krupp metal. The cannon's firing mechanism was still operable however, and the gun was later used in the sinking of an Allied vessel. More than likely, the tracers flying over the Colony, and witnessed by several Lagoite families, were the sixteen projectiles fired from U-156's 37mm deck cannon.) Oberleutnant zur see Dietrich von dem Borne Meldung (Report) January 23, 1945 Narvik, Norway "On the basis of new facts which became known to me during recent weeks concerning the several occurrences of gun barrel bursts in U-boat guns during the time of my accident on U-156 in 1942, and the final conclusions drawn by experts during proceedings with gun barrel bursts and barrel tampion shots, I respectfully request that my case be reviewed again and ask for detailed, factual, and especially technical investigations of the gun barrel burst on U-156, February 16, 1942. I (also) ...ask that the Marineartillerieamt (naval artillery department) be interviewed, which, at the time, probably had not been involved in the case because my flotilla reported the case as a "shot fired with the barrel tampion in-place" (M) and had not addressed it as a (possible) "premature shellburst (misfire) in the gun barrel" (RK). "As proof basis for my assertion...made in an earlier report of September 8, 1944 that the accident factually could only have occurred due to an RK and, as a result, could only have happened outside my guilt. I request that again I may bring the following to your attention: "On February 16, 1942, U-156 was located before Aruba for the attack on North American shipping and (the) artillery bombardment of land installations. After sinking three tankers, the refinerry and oil installations at Aruba should be bombarded. The boat (U-156) was located about one (1) nautical mile from the (Aruba) coast in complete quiet seas. Approximately one hour before carrying out the attack, the (105mm deck) gun was cleaned and made ready for firing upon my orders. I personally supervised the cleaning work of the gun crew. (The gun crew) had been briefed about the plan of the impending bombardment. After completion of the work, I let my soldiers shine through the barrel with a 'blue light' in order to personally make sure of its (barrel) cleanliness. Approximately thirty minutes before the start of firing, the barrel tampion had been removed and the barrel was clear. The gun firing would start immediately after switching (the crew) from 'torpedo battle stations' to 'artillery battle stations' (*see below), which was known to the whole crew. There was no reason whatever for any of the crew to make any changes to the 'ready for combat' situation, which I had personally ascertained through arbitrary(?) actions. (DDG note: *I assume Borne was referring to both the 105mm and 37mm deck cannons.) "With the order 'artillery ready for action', I was one of the first on the upper deck with No. 1 (Bootsmannsmaat Marek). No. 1, who was known to me as being especially reliable, reported the gun again as positively ready. It is, amongst others, explicity included in the duties of No. 1 to report readiness of the gun to the Artillery Officer of the boat to convince himself of the removal of the barrel tampion, and to bring the gun in combat ready condition in every respect. "After my final check, the barrel tampion would/(appears to) have been reinstalled, against orders, which in actual circumstances would have been impossible because I was the last to leave the gun deck after the cleaning of the cannon, and was the first one to get back to the gun at the order 'ready for combat'. No. 1 should not have reported the gun ready to me before again(?) removing the tampion. My reporting the 'artillery ready for firing' to the Commandant was doubly insured because a.) of my personal and careful check of the gun following the cleaning, (and)...b.) by the ready reporting by the recognized and dependable and combat experienced No. 1. "As a result, it should...be on the basis of the actual situation without any doubt that at the firing of the first (and only) shot, (that) the barrel tampion was not in-place in the barrel. "In addition, the course of events witnessed by myself before firing of the first shot, as well as the condition of the gun barrel which I became aware of later, points from a purely technical viewpoint towards the occurrence of a RK or premature explosion of the ammunition. "Contrary to the usual situation, I was not on the bridge when the shot was fired, but following a special order of the CO, I was between the conning tower and the (deck) gun. From that position I saw the firing of the shot, clearly a lemon yellow colored flash flame. As I was told later, a long piece of the gun barrel tore loose and fell off at the detonation (of the gun). Both evidences point to a typical RK. It is also significant that, as experience of the Navy Artillery Department shows, at that time several RK's occurred with (other) U-boat guns, which could not be related to M. "...(T)o the contrary, the No. 2 (Bootsmannsmaate Herdecker), as his deposition arrived at a position contrary (to No. 1), then this must be in error. For the rest, the hearings of No. 2, which were reported to me by the flap lieutenant of the Commander of U-boots, prove that this soldier (No. 2) does not remember clearly anymore what happened...(I)n his...declarations in the case he made three differing statements: "In No. 2's first statement, as confirmed by written deposition, the soldier appears to believe that he came to the (105mm deck) gun too late and (therefore) would have had insufficient time to convince himself that the (gun barrel's) tampion had been removed. After reporting the gun ready (to fire), a few minutes lapsed before opening fire. No. 2 would...have had sufficient time to personally make certain that the tampion had been removed, and because this was a part of his duties...(H)e states that he did not know for sure (if the tampion had been removed). "In No. 2's telexed hearings report, the soldier...indicates later that there would have been a remnant of the tampion present (after firing of the gun). However, from that he cannot, without further evidence, conclude that the tampion was still in place. When No. 2 was pressed to make an unequivocal statement, in order to clearly answer the question (the question being: 'Was the tampion in the barrel or not?'), he stated uncontestably that the tampion had been in the barrel. "If the soldier (No. 2) had known from the start that the statement expected from him was to serve to clarify the question, then he could have, if he had been informed precisely about the situation, given his statement immediately. But that aside, when he really wanted to have seen that the tampion was still in the gun barrel, it would have been among his duties to remove it. Then it (the accident) would have been blamed on him (No. 2), for...the accident (gun barrel explosion) that occurred. "In case the Commander of U-boats declines on grounds of the above report, as well as a technical report from the Navy Artillery Department, to accept the conclusion that the accident was caused by a RK, then I respectfully request, again, that the case be submitted for judgment by a Military Court... "...Until now I have not been given an opportunity to defend myself against the statements made by No. 2, which amongst others have also led to refusal to award me the Verwundetenabzeichens ('wounded decoration'). Due to the refusal to award theVerwundetenabzeichens by the Commander of U-boats, I feel the judgment regarding my performance of duties as Artillery Officer (on U-156) has been... severely compromised. "I have to insist on the (further) clarification of this case, because the decision so far by the Commandant of U-boats discriminates against me in my military and personal life, and shows me in such a negative manner, that...not even a Court (of Law) could...achieve. "I feel strongly that I can only...feel like a respected officer when I have been awarded the Verwundetenabzeichens and my heavy injuries, as result of combat, will be offically documented, as specified in Navy Regulations, Volume 41, November 15, 1939, which stipulate that 'injuries or damages which are incurred in the course of combat without (one's) own fault, are to be considered equal to injuries caused by enemy fire'. " S/ Dietrich von dem Borne, Oberleutnant zur see. [DDG note: Borne, who passed-away in 2005, was the last surviving officer that we know of, from U-156's second patrol. On U-156's fifth patrol, it was sunk on March 8, 1943, east of Barbados with all 53 hands lost. Although three crewmen were seen in the water after the breaking-up of U-156, and dropped small life rafts by the USN Catalina aircraft, they were never seen again.] Part III of Dietrich von dem Borne's Memoranda will appear in Newsletter #8. Mini Book and Motion Picture Reviews ****Excellent ***Good **Fair *Passable Iron Coffins****, Commander Herbert A. Werner, Da Capo Press, 1998, 321 pgs. U-boat Commander Werner tells the traditional, but personal, story of the rise and fall of the German U-Boat Service during WWII. His trials and tribulations with U-boats and U-boat command headquarters...the "good years"...and "dark clouds on the horizon" years. What's interesting is that although Werner was born in Germany and later became an American citizen, the text of the book is in excellent readable English. I gather there was no English translator since no credit was given. U-Boat!***, Sharkhunters (editors), 1997, 196 pgs. These are the personal, first-hand accounts of German U-boat patrols told by the commanders who lead them. No two accounts, and there are twenty-two, are the same. First hand accounts are getting few and far between, as years go by. Harry Cooper's organization, Shartkhunters International, has provided a valuable service in getting these U-boat commanders to put pen-to-paper. There's not that much time left. U-Boat Killer**, Captain Donald MacIntyre, Rigel Press, 1956, 179 pgs. Story told by a Royal Navy destroyer captain who destroyed seven U-boats, captured one of Germany's famous U-boat aces, Otto Kretschmer of U-99, and assisted in the sinking of U-47 and its Kapitan Gunther Prien. Although this is one of the first books (1956) associated with U-boat warfare, I don't believe it's the best. Only in the final forty-pages does MacIntyre really grab you. Das Boot ***Produced by Wolfgang Petersen, two-disks, approximately 5-hours. This is supposedly the creme' de creme' of U-boat movies. Das Boot is the nitty gritty story of a U-boat that begins its patrol pier-side with bands playing, flags flying, blonde-headed girls smiling, horns blowing, and eager young seamen recruits looking forward to their first patrol...and ends with....well, why spoil a good adventure. The viewer experiences the crews' boredom, anger, anxiety, silence, relief, and back to boredom and anxiety. The technical effects for a 1985 film are good for the time, but a 21-years later, special effects Das Boot production by Steven Spielberg, would probably blow your socks off. What's in The Future Mix? U-156/U-502 Roundtable #4, 8:30 a.m., Tuesday, June 20, 2006, Wyndham Hotel (room to be announced), Aruba, N.A. This meeting is to be held in conjunction with the 2006 Lago/Aruba Reunion, June 17th-24th. Ray Burson will be the feature speaker. In Ray's talk he will provide Roundtable attendees with current information obtained from the U.S. National Archives on the February 16-18, 1942, U-boat attack. Jorge Ridderstaat will give a synopsis of Chapter 4.3 ("The Attack of February 16, 1942") from his forthcoming book, The Lago Story. Clyde Harms will relate his eyewitness account of the unidentified U-boat in Oranjestad Harbour, February 18, 1942. And, Dufi Kock will regal us with passages from his forthcoming book, The History of Savaneta. We encourage all reunioners, whether or not you're a member/subscriber of the U-156/U-502 Roundtable, to come by Tuesday, June 20th and listen to some mighty interesting speakers on Aruba and Lago history. The (Supposed) Supplying of Fuel Oil to "Neutral" Countries During WWII. Roundtable member Jerry Casius has put together an interesting paper on the neutrality, quasi-neutrality, and non-neutrality of certain "Axis-allied" countries receiving, and not receiving, refined fuel oil from Lago during WWII. The Borne Memorandum (#3) of April 29, 1945. Shorter, but livelier. Correspondence from our member/subscribers. Report on Roundtable #4. ........All to be found in U-156/U-502 Roundtable's forthcoming Newsletter #8. |
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And in Closing.... Keep those letters, telegrams (are there still telegrams?), postcards, e-mails, and snail mails coming. It's the only way I have of telling whether or not you're in the same boat with me or you've decided to fire a broadside at my canoe. Honestly, it's the only way I know if you are enjoying the Newsletters and Roundtables. If you have some constructive suggestions and ideas to make for a better Newsletter and a better Roundtable, send them my way. And, if you have questions related to the Lago community pertaining to the February 1942 attack, or know of a story concerning the attack, send them our way and we'll do our dead-level best to answer them and get them into the next Newsletter. If you know of someone interested in the Group Neuland (part of Operation WestIndien) attack on Lago/Aruba, and is not a member/subscriber to the Roundtable Newsletter, please drop us a line and we'll add them to our roster. And, most importantly, should you change your e-mail and/or postal address, please let us know in order to keep our roster current. Until the next time.... Your man in the trenches, Don D. Gray, Moderator/Editor U-156/U-502 Roundtable Newsletter arubagray@aol.com |
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